Hello, everyone! I’m Dr. Trish Murray – physician; and now I can say, “best-selling author;” and the Health Catalyst Speaker. I am honored today for this podcast presentation to be speaking with Debra Morrison. Our title of today’s podcast is “Women Navigating Finances.” Welcome, Debra! Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Dr. Trish. It’s great to be with you.

Thanks so much. What I’m going to do is go ahead and read your bio for folks so they can get a sense of your background, and then we’ll get right into the conversation.

Folks, Debra Morrison uses her wisdom gleamed from forty-two years of experience as a fiduciary financial planner and money manager to coach women to take responsibility to ensure their money lasts longer than they do. Her 2019 TEDx speech was entitled “Feel the Financial Fear and Do It Anyway.” She uses everyday analogies, humor, and outside-the-box strategies to save women time, angst, and money so they can live fulfilled lives and leave rich legacies. Debra is a certified grief coach, having authored her Amazon best-seller My Husband Died, Now What?: A Widow’s Guide to Grief Recovery & Smart Financial Decisions. She’s the “expect the unexpected speaker,” having spoken internationally to empower folks about their money, particularly regarding retirement planning. She golfs and scuba dives in her spare time, and Debra can be reached at [email protected] or also by dialing 973-706-8924. Of course, we’ll come back to all of that information in a little bit.

Debra, that’s an amazing background. You’ve done a TEDx speech and you speak internationally. Of course, some people might be wondering, What the heck are you doing on the Discover Health podcast having a financial person come on? Well, we’re going to get into that, and you’re going to understand. Our financial health is part of our health! Deb, the first question I love to ask everyone I interview is – we all have our journey. What brought you? How did you get to the way you’re being of service for folks today?

Well, it’s a great question, Trish. It is really about my “why.” Yes, the why for me is that I’ve always pushed the envelope, if you will. I’ve lived a life that some people have called adventuresome and so forth. I’m always curious about the next challenge and so you’ll see the background here. I climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro last July and I summitted which not everyone does. That experience was really telltale for me because it kind of coalesced a lot of my life experiences toward the focus upon good navigation. I had a guide that had taken hikers up Mt. Kilimanjaro, which is the highest peak in Africa. You can see just shy of 20,000 feet (19,341 feet), and our guide had taken groups 786 times! Do you know how much confidence that gave me? I had never hiked a mountain at that altitude before. I had trained for six months before then, and yet I still knew there were perils. I still knew there were risks; I might not get to the top. My oxygenation may be sacrificed and compromised. So, there were a ton of risks and that’s why I chose to put my faith in our personal guide, Warner Berger, and then our African guides. They enabled or (I don’t like to use that word), they helped us get to the top and it was that confidence that I had in them that bred my confidence.

I’m here to help women in particular get into their confidence and bolster it so that we can use the tool called money to buttress and preserve and protect our health.Click To Tweet

That’s awesome! Yeah, that’s amazing. You obviously have done other athletic things in your life, I assume, prior to this.

I did.

I have as well, and it’s just we just keep plugging.


That’s awesome. So, why did you found Women Navigating Finances, and what type of coaching do you provide women you work with?

Well, I really understand risk in a way that some people don’t. I’ve mainly advised clients for forty-two years – I’ve seen a lot of it, right? It breaks my heart to see women who are dogged in their determination. They’re often very good savers. They often give a lot away to their family and friends and their partners. Sometimes at their own very expense. And yet they haven’t had the socialization and the family support or the training to get them on the right track, if you will. It’s like maybe you inherited a patient and they’ve been taking this medication or this supplement for a long time and they dutifully take it. You’re doing their workup and it’s like, that’s interesting and I’m really glad you’ve been really diligent about it but boy if you’d taken this…and you’re probably chewing the inside of your cheeks. I do! Oh my gosh, I wish I would have had a hold of you five, ten, or fifteen years ago!

It breaks my heart to see women, particularly older women, that are doing the right things that discipline saving and yet because of their ignorance haven’t been saving perhaps in the right places.Click To Tweet And it’s going to bite us later, and sometimes it bites us sooner and that’s completely avoidable. That’s what I’m all about. I’m about navigational skills to identify the perils. Just like when you board a plane. The pilot has a weather map and the original route. There’s probably going to be change if that weather changes. So also, with our lives and our financial lives. So much of our financial lives inextricably connect with our personal lives and clearly our health.

Absolutely because one of the biggest stressors in people’s lives is their financial situation and whether it’s been planned for properly or whether something comes out of left field and they’re not prepared for it. I mean just this week at my own home, I’m literally standing in the shower, I’ve got conditioner in my hair, and all of the sudden – zip! The water’s gone. I said, “What?!” It turns out that our water pump in our well the day before the area had been hit by lightning and it destroyed the water pump. Boom! Three or four thousand dollars later…do you have that in your home insurance or is that coming out of some sort of savings? Where is the money going to come from? We don’t know when these things will happen. Deb, you’ve been known and quoted to say,

“Time and health are your greatest two assets.”Click To Tweet What does that mean?

Well, it’s a curious genesis, Trish, because I was on CNN and being interviewed live by Stuart Varney back in, I think, 1999. You know the chyron on the bottom said “Debra Morrison, Certified Financial Planner” and he’s saying, “What are your best assets, Debra?” And I know he wanted me to name a stock or a piece of real estate or a mutual fund, a strategy of some financial nature. It was kind of a broad question and I just quickly said, God, give me this answer. Through my lips came, “Time and health are my two assets, my two greatest assets.” He was so flustered! He had to take a station break. He was like, Whoa! We have a certified financial planner here talking about time and health! I was so glad that spirit gave me those words because they are completely true.

No amount of money…people on their death beds would give groups of zeros for one more dance, one more conversation. You don’t have to be a certified grief coach to know this. I am a certified grief coach and I know this; I’ve experienced it.

Money, for all of the emphasis we have put on it as individuals and society, pales by comparison to our real-life experiences.Click To Tweet I’m known to say, “Life is not a dress rehearsal, ladies and gentlemen. It’s just not.” The COVID virus has brought that all the more to the fore, such that I want to shape our expectations around money. It’s really important. Money actually can buy us alternative medical treatments, if necessary, additional healthcare, and nurse attentiveness. Various perks might extend our life, it might improve and probably will improve our health. All these very important reasons to have enough money and to invest the money such that you not only have money, Trish, today. It’s not enough to get money right once, right? We have to get it right again and again and again. So, I think that is the integral part of buttressing our money and solidifying that nest egg, if you will, those pockets of money from which we can draw to enhance our health and hopefully enable us to enjoy all the time we’re given. Only one person knows that, and it’s not you or I.

Absolutely, absolutely! You know, the other thing is in the medical world and in the health world one of the top causes of bankruptcy today across this country in particular is someone’s health.


So, the idea that if we’re not making sure that we have navigated well as far as health insurance or money put aside to help us, these types of things can put an enormous amount of stress on someone’s life. Can you give us some examples of major perils that derail women’s financial plans and how they can avoid them? Can you give us any examples of folks you’ve worked with and how you’ve helped them?

Well, sure. I think that longevity is chief among them. We tend to, as creatures of habit, think about our parents. They died at whatever age. I’m lucky enough to have both of my parents alive. And yet we are not as wise to do that as we are to look through the windshield of our lives towards the future. The life expectancy for women now on average is 81. Yet a healthy woman at age 61 if she’s healthy without anything major going on -and you will know this, Trish – has a 50% chance of living past age 88 and a 25% chance of living past age 94. Longevity increases as we age. Not so many people understand that. It’s not a logarithmic thing. It increases as we age. If you are healthy at 65, factor in that you’re going to be around for another thirty-plus years. The question is, has your money already retired and is it going to be run out by that time? Are you going to be at one of the most perilous time in your life, old age, probably more impaired with less mobility and now wondering, how am I going to pay the bills? This is going to cause worry and probably shorten your life.

The issue is longevity, and we want to pay attention to maintaining our health so that as we’re living those longer years, we can keep our body, soul, and mind as much as possible together and in working order.Click To Tweet That’s number one.

And two, I think one of the biggest perils is the avoidance of stock market investing for too many women because we’ve taken some impetus from the media. When the stock market dives and crashes…“The stock market is crashing! The stock market is crashing!” It’s jumping through the screen – most people do watch television still – or even on your smartphone. That impetus or inference is you must do something because this big thing is happening. What most people do is push the sell button, which is exactly the wrong action in that kind of precipitous market drop. That’s when we should be adding to our accounts. If the market continues to gyrate and drop (as it will because of the market cycle) as the markets drop, that’s when we want to add more money into our 401k and our IRA because we’re buying the units at cheaper prices, see.

We understand this as women when our favorite retailer throws a sale, right? If we’re going to buy a suit and we’re going to notice in the mail or across the banner on our smartphones that there’s going to be a 20% off sale on Tuesday, it’s not likely that we’re going to go out today. We’re waiting until Tuesday for the sale. The stock market doesn’t give you that advanced notice. It just goes on sale and when you see the stock market on sale, that’s giving you the opportunity to buy that same good suit, that same good stock, that same good mutual fund at a cheaper price! I think we can tie in some commonsense aspects. I think around that the silo of money, women have been conditioned, if you will, to think, I can’t do that. That’s outside my realm of common sense. No, it’s not. Let’s just bring it right in here because money is not something we can go through life without understanding. You can do that and yet, you will find your life far less fulfilling and you will have far less opportunities and for some of us it’s far less opportunities to give. That’s really such a lifeblood for many women.

Another peril is not looking at your partner’s or your beneficiary designations. They’re often outdated. You understand that 401k, IRAs, life insurance policies – that all passes outside the will. When people divorce, remarry and so forth, and change their will, they didn’t change that life insurance policy beneficiary. I’ve helped people unwind that; it’s not pretty. I’ve helped people go to court to get spousal recognition. These are gnarly things that I’ve helped people unwind, but boy, with a little planning it is so much easier and less stressful because these perils are stressful.

The other major peril, I think, is the descents. We often are saving, saving, saving, saving, and this peak called life (and I climbed Kilimanjaro) and we get to the top, we get to that retirement date, we’re all happy, often we have a party, and now that would be a virtual party. We’re tooting the horns and we’re looking forward to the next chapter where we’re going to work less or maybe you’re not going to work for pay at all and it’s going to be called what used to be called retirement. People have all new names for it, but it’s a new chapter. So, then we’re kind of at a pinnacle of having saved actively and now we’re going to start to withdraw some of those monies out of our nest egg. One poor decision on that withdrawal methodology can completely wrench your portfolio such that it could last five, ten, fifteen years less than if you simply paid close attention because taxes are all the more important on that post-retirement, on those withdrawals. We know about these normal ages like expected events, age 59 ½ and 70 and now it’s 72. But you can relate to this with your whole water in the shower issue – it’s the unexpected things in life like the early-onset dementia, the burial of your child, it is premature death, it is disability, it is an accident and you didn’t have proper liability insurance. You were so busy worrying about – not worrying maybe, maybe worrying, but researching – whether you should buy Tesla versus Apple stock, and you hung yourself out to dry without umbrella liability policy. Your kid gets in a car and is tabbed with having caused an accident that may have maimed or killed someone. All of your investments are culpable to that lawsuit. Your social security can be garnished, your pension can be garnished, your house can go away. The attention to detail, it cannot be stressed enough, these pieces fit together into a puzzle and it must be navigated.

I’ll tell a little story about myself. I went up to Mt. Kilimanjaro; it wasn’t easy. I got to the top, we took our pictures, and we started down. There was a lot of lava, it’s gravely and a little sandy. We’d heard all about it, and we started actually like we were skiing down with our mountain climbing boots still on, obviously. That’s when I fell. I fell on the descent. On the ascent, my eye was on that mountaintop. Then I got a little lackluster, took my eye off the goal. I’m not saying that your eye or anyone listening’s eye should be on the goal, but you need to have someone’s eye on the goal. Best hire a person who’s been there before – gone up with people and gone down that drawing from your nest egg hill. I’ve done it for forty-two years. That as a navigational guide can save you groups of zeros and extend your lifetime income! Let’s get serious, this is what we’re about. I want to make certain that everybody’s (and particularly women’s) money lasts as long as they do. You must pay attention to it, just like you must pay attention to your health.

Yeah, I mean this sounds like it’s a holistic operation here in the same way that with Discover Health Functional Medicine Center, we’re all about optimizing and giving people the tools to take control of their health and optimize their health so they can transform their lives. You’re doing that in the financial world. It sounds like – wow! I’m listening saying, Wow. In our day-to-day lives, where do we have the time to think about dotting all the i’s and crossing all the t’s. We just don’t! People say to me all the time, “Do you sleep? With everything you do!” You and I are driving it, but the bottom line is everybody is doing that. We’ve all got so much going on in our lives. It’s like, wait a minute! I haven’t thought about that or that. That’s when you need a coach. That’s when you need an advisor. That’s when you need help so that you don’t miss one of these holistic pieces in the puzzle.

Another thing, I’ve heard of something called the family love letter where you put together all your information for your family of where are your bank accounts, what stocks do you have, what saving accounts and what other accounts, what liability insurance or other insurance, where is your will, where is your power of attorney, where’s this, where’s that? It’s like – wow! It’s overwhelming like doing your taxes, but you know what? We all need to do it.


Why don’t I ask one question around like what would be the top three or four things that you would say to someone, “make sure if you haven’t looked at this in the last three or four years…” What’s something you would make sure, the top list that you would say to somebody, “you need to make sure you go back and take a look at this and make sure it’s in place. And dot an I or cross a T on that.” What would you say?

Well, there are so many, yet I think chief among them is the parsing out of various investment types for various goals, Trish. I invite people to write their goals down and then put an approximate timeline with each goal. And then finally, a little dollar sign that’s associated with each goal. Mostly I’m going to start with the timeline. For anything that’s longer than seven years, and for some of us it’s our retirement or when we’re kicking back from earning money – that belongs in the stock market because historically speaking, the returns on the stock market have superseded the returns on other asset classes. Period. End of story. I have no idea what the future of various asset classes will be, yet I’m saying that like Mark Twain said history may not repeat itself, but it’ll surely rhyme. If we can get women into the conversation about risk being the currency for reward instead of some big, bad, scary stock market. You know what the stock market it? It’s Tesla, it’s Ford, it’s Bosch dishwashers, it’s companies that make products and services that we all use! I can disabuse someone of their previous notions if they’re open to listening. That is going to save people a lot of time and angst and extend their portfolios basically. Let me just say portfolio. Is it going to extend their life income, right? That’s number one.

Number two is that we want to certainly consider all of our social security options, right? I got a widow as a client a couple years ago and got talking at the initial conversation, and I said, “So how much social security are you getting.” She said, “Oh, I’m not.” I think as I remember it, I put her on hold right then, I called the supervisor of a social security office, and we got her a benefit. I think it was $2,430 a month. She didn’t know that she could have had it. What people often skip here, Trish, is if you’ve been married at least ten years and divorced, you’re eligible for a spousal retirement benefit. It doesn’t matter if that…like in the old days it was mostly men married women and for ten plus years. Now the same-sex marriage matters not, but a person can have four partners for ten plus years each and all of those four partners can take spousal retirement benefits off of that one wager. It’s not going to impede that wager! I’ve got women like, “I don’t want to cause him any angst. I don’t want him to know that I’m doing it.” I don’t even think the wage earner knows. So, if you’ve been married ten plus years, badda-bing badda-bang you’re eligible for divorce benefit. If you’re widowed, you’re eligible for a widow benefit. If you’ve had your own earnings record, you’re eligible for that. So, there’s this nuancing. Oh, I’ll take this benefit for 1.3 years and then I’ll switch to that benefit. I’ll put this benefit on ice until age 70. When we do a matrix of social security, the difference in pay out options is magnificent. Several hundred thousand dollars.

Now, here’s what no one knows – social security employees are forbidden by contract (they can be fired) for giving advice. Why? They don’t know! What do most people do? They make decisions because they know the 800-number for social security, they know when their birthday is – badda-bing badda-bang – they think they are doing the smart thing called social security. They say to the person, “What do you think?” If that person actually gives advice, you can take their name and actually get them fired. I’m not on any mission to fire any social security officers or dispensers of information, but what I want to impress upon us is it’s often more complicated than meets the eye.

If someone comes into your office, Trish, and they say, “I have this lower back pain and have no idea…” and you might find that the cause of their lower back pain is their diet or something else. It’s probably not really right there, right? Or it’s there and it originated someplace else. I think the caution I have is while I like women to take action on their money issues, because often women are paralyzed in their fear, I do want them to do it smartly. I always like to measure twice and cut once. It’s a lot easier to plan ahead.

Then the other aspect is to basically get our lives in order just as you said and keep a congruency in our records and have a financial planner first of all. This enables us to pivot much easier when unexpected events befall us. We can go back to our plan and say, “Oh, I’ll just shift this slightly. I’ll pivot here.” I would work with people and say, “Okay, here are your options.” Versus a person with no plan, and they’re like, “Oh! What next?” I like to put an apostrophe s behind that, “what’s next?” because something is next and it’s a lot easier to plan ahead of time, and yet if you didn’t plan ahead of time we can recover. I want to stress; the statistics are most Americans are one poor financial decision away from financial ruin. You’re bringing in the potential risk of medical cost bankrupting people. That’s completely separate but completely palpable. We need to weigh our decisions.

I think of women who their kid wants to go out to soccer, become a musician, or study for the SATs and the mother will – badda-bing badda-bang – get CliffsNotes coaching for those SAT tests, get that soccer coach, get that violin coach. She’s going to spend money on that kid for that coach because the kid is trying to do something or are embarking on doing something that they’re not good at, they don’t know how to do, and she’s going to help them. Then I need her to turn the mirror on herself because that’s the biggest gift she can give herself, her kids, and her entire sphere of family and friends. This is not about self-pride; this is about self-preservation. I acknowledge the poor socialization, and I talked about this in my TED talk. I acknowledge the poor socialization so in no way, shape, or form do I want to come across saying, “Women, it’s your fault you’re in this ditch.” Yet it is our responsibility.

Let’s take that responsibility and inch our way towards selective actions, guided actions, and navigate through the perils of our lives financial, medical, personal, spiritual – they are interconnected.Click To Tweet

Absolutely. I mean, I talk about mind, body, spirit all the time and idea that so many and of course your focus is on women, so many women come and when they are raising their families and I recommend a particular dietary thing or something. I hear so many times that they are cooking for themselves and they are cooking for their family differently. That always blows me away to be honest. When I walked into my family’s life and my step-kids…if I’m the cook then guess what? You’re all eating what I’m eating! Guess what? They learned pretty quick that they enjoyed it and they liked it. As time went on through high school, the kids would turn and say to me, “Trish, what do I need to do? I feel so much better than some of my friends and I know it’s because of the way that you’ve been teaching me how to eat.” They may fight at first, but the bottom line is we all need to take care of ourselves first and then everyone else. What if we’re not there because we haven’t looked in the mirror for ourselves? As you bring up that mirror. That’s one thing I love to say to people too. We all need to look in the mirror like once a month and say, where am I? What’s working and what’s not for me and for my loved ones? Me first, but then also is it working for my family and my loved ones. That would be such a message if we all did that once a month, then things like this. May you hear something like this on Facebook or on our podcast and it’s like, I need to check out this Debra Morrison person and talk to her because I need some help. Or I need to check out Dr. Murray at Discover Health because I’m not taking care of my health the way I should be.


That’s why we do conversations like this, so we let people know that these are things they should keep on board. So, Deb, what about women as investors? Are we as good as our male counterparts? Are we good? Are we bad? How do we match up as far as investing goes?

Well, it’s certainly fraught with some bias and yet there are a number of studies that show women, when we invest, actually are better investors than our male counterparts, all other variables being equal. Statistics say that women investors are going to get on average 4/10 of a percent more in total return every year. That sounds like a small thing, and yet compounded it adds up. Why is that? Because women typically do their homework. I’m inviting women to get out of the inertia, the fear, the paralysis space, hold their fear around money in a different way that involves us expanding their horizon. Knowledge is power. I’m a teacher almost (not by trade), but I like to teach. When people see that their life is expanding in front of them, they’re eager to learn more. Once women get on to the trajectory and away from the inaction inertia and bolt through the inertia, they will become sticky investors, right? They have a plan; they’re going to stick to the plan. Guys are a little bit more flippant. They’ll do more action; they’ll do more trading. Of course, you start doing a lot of trading and now you’re just increasing your tax costs and you’re probably not getting that long-term benefit. We want to invest in the stock market in anything that’s seven plus years in duration of a goal.

I make an analogy to putting a chocolate cake in the oven. If it says to put it in at 350 degrees for forty minutes, you mix up all the ingredients (all these are really good ingredients), put it in the oven, it says 40 minutes on the recipe. Well what sometimes happens in life is you open that oven door and we look in on it at ten minutes and take the cakes out. You’re not going to get that result that the recipe promised because you didn’t follow the directions. Whatever is prompting you – the media, your family, or your fears – whatever it is to prompt you to open the oven door in ten minutes instead of the forty minutes that it was called for…

Part of the value I provide, Trish, is telling people, “Don’t do that. Do not do that.” It’s almost akin to the driver’s ed teacher we used to have. They would sit in the righthand side of the car and they had a brake. If you were driving someplace and it was going to be dangerous – ba-boom – and they would put the brake on. Just picture me, I’m going to be in the passenger seat of your financial car or ship and if you’re about to do something that I think is going to cause a great deal of pain and money, I’m going to put the brake on for you. That’s just as good as me saying, “Take that left-hand turn.” That confluence of the stopping the negative or devastating actions and the advising on which is the more likely road because there are toll roads and there are non-toll roads. Our GPS tells us that, gives us a choice. Sometimes we like to go through those little towns and see the flavor. Sometimes the goal is really palpable in our mind and we just pay the toll on the turnpike and we want to get there fast. There are many ways of getting there. I just want the ways in which we get to each of our goals to be congruent with our comfort level, our timelines, and sometimes our health shapes that. You get a diagnosis that’s going to shorten your life potentially, I’m telling you what, there’s an awful lot of pivoting. There’s a come-to-Jesus moment; that’s how I was raised. People shift and pivot.

The ultimate benefit of having a navigational guide around your finances is to be a partner with you and to be there intellectually when you are completely engaged emotionally. Intellect and emotion are on opposite ends of the spectrum, neuro-linguistic programming tells us that. If you’re intellectually charged, you’re not so emotionally involved, and if you’re highly emotional, you are not so intellectually engaged. It’s just how it works. If you, because of unexpected events almost always and some expected events, are emotionally involved I’m going to be there to be the brains behind that decision-making process until your emotions calm down and are tamped down and now, we can discuss this whole thing together. What better way of doing that, and yet it’s wise to get that person before the corner of your kitchen is on fire.

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we may have all experienced that. You open the oven too soon and then what does that cake do? Poof! It plops.


And you don’t want that to happen! You want the air and the fluff to stay, so that’s really important.


This has been awesome, thanks for coming on and having a conversation with me. How do people find you? What types of ways would they be able to learn more from you?

My website is womennavigatingfinances.com and I have a founder’s launch right now where I’m gathering some early adopters, if you will, into this group coaching program. If you’ll put /founders after that, so womennavigatingfinances.com/founders. I’ve kept my founders launch open until midnight tonight because I knew we were going to be chatting, Trish. I knew some of your listeners would be interested in joining the group. You’ll see all of the benefits and the perks of what I’m going to provide there. It’s deeply discounted at $37/month only until midnight EST tonight. In September, we’re going to launch it in a full-blown launch for the regular price of $97/month, so clearly a big financial impetus. More importantly, the founders are able to kind of help me frame what is the content that’s most troublesome or challenging to you, right? You have this input ability which I think is really valuable. We’re going to have some personal sessions and some group sessions. I think, and if you know me, I’m going to make it fun for everyone and relatable. So, I invite you to do that.

In time, we’ll launch regular one-on-one coaching programs that will be much more individualized and so forth. For right now, we’re going to invite our listeners to log in and see if the founders’ program is something that interests you. If it is, you’ve got to jump on it because we’re going to close it down and then start the work of the group. I’m just terrifically excited about it!

Will this be something that people do with you on Zoom? The founders of the group come on and they have topics and you would be just educating the group around different things and then giving tasks to go check out and figure it out for each individual. Is that how that would work?

Right. We have a Facebook group that we’re already interchanging information back and forth. There’s that wonderful coalescing of women because when women experience stress, and you know this, they release oxytocin. Oxytocin released in women actually causes them to bond then with other women. Whereas in the male stress response of the higher testosterone, that actually tamps down oxytocin and so they kind of handle their stress one-on-one. Women typically haven’t been so great about talking about money in groups, and yet I’m going to smash that barrier and we’re going to talk (and we already are talking) about it. We’re going to bring up our challenges and then we’re going to celebrate our successes. That’s really what breeds confidence, right? It’s everybody saying, “Hey, great job! You stopped that pattern that was otherwise holding you back. You broke through that previously held limiting belief.” It’s going to be a wonderful group setting and then there’s back and forth question and answer sessions, a Zoom call every month, and we’re going to have some fun things once a month like quizzes, games (money games). I don’t know; we’re imagining things as we go. It’s going to be, I think, empowering and life-changing because when women get a taste of the fun, they can have in shaping their financial future. The melding, Trish, and the molding that their money matches their life’s mission is particularly empowering. I wore my red, white, and blue to say, “We want to be about our financial independence!” That is completely your responsibility, and I think it’s going to be completely life-changing for many women that take advantage. That’s my mission.

That’s awesome! You know, so many of us have our fears of this or that and the bottom line is we all know that if you’re old enough you realize somewhere along the way I hope that when typically we have these fears and they are big, big, big until you face the fear, step through the door, and then it’s like, Eh. That wasn’t that bad. Why did I blow it out of proportion? I’m definitely going to check it out! It’s womennavigatingfinances.com/founders.

That’s it!

Alright. Perfect!

To your point. I’ve already done a lot of lives about my dear, dear late friend Dr. Susan Jeffers. She wrote the landmark book, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. I was great friends with her and so I asked permission from her to use part of her trademark in my TEDx talk. She has given us a model for how we hold our fear, and I’m going to share that with us. It has been completely a lightbulb moment for so many people, and it gives us a real language and new possibilities around exactly that – how we hold our fears so that we’re not held back and paralyzed.

That’s awesome. Yeah, check out her TED talk too, folks! Deb, the question I always love to end my conversations with folks that come on the podcast is – if you had to pick one secret for living a healthy life, what would you share with folks?

Well, I love the word “congruence” and so I imagine living at least until age 100. If that’s my imagination, then I need to take the preparatory steps now, so I have a good probability of achieving that. If my finances are congruent with that mission and a whole bunch of little goals in the meantime, then it feels like to me there’s no real impediments that I know about right now. I would say clear out anything that seems to be chaff (I was raised on a farm). Let’s get to the wheat. Let’s be congruent with matching everything that we have control of which is our thought, our mind, our spirit, our body in large part (certainly what goes into our mouth and our exercise), and our mission and our mentality and our spirituality to get to those goals. For me, it’s longevity and being continuously a contributory member of this planet that I so dearly love. With congruency, I think we have a much better probability of doing that and being joyful as we do it, and that’s my hope.

Thanks so much for sharing all of this, Debra. There are so many people out there, particularly as you’re focused on with women, that need to take a look and be listening to this. Check out Discover Health Podcast. Just Google it and you’ll find us. I do hundreds of podcasts on different health-related options. Thank you so much, Debra, for talking with us to today. It’s been an awesome conversation. I hope people have learned something and definitely check out womennavigatingfinances.com

Right! And womennavigatingfinances.com/founders.

And womennavigatingfinances.com/founders to get to this new program that’s only $37/month. Take care, everybody. Thank you so much for listening!



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